NetSetMan Support

Kotsius

Member

Registered: 2016-03-23

Posts: 4

Multiple active profiles & adapter list options

(v4.1.2 on Windows 7)

This excellent software could be much improved if the following – relatively simple – features could be implemented:

I have two profiles (A,B) relating to my LAN cable and another two (C,D) relating to the WiFi. The former two are therefore in principle completely unrelated to the latter two. I should be able to have both A and C active at the same time (or A and D, or B and C, or B and D). More generally, each time a profile is about to be activated, the program should check whether the settings of any given active profile are affected by this change and, if not, preserve the active status of that profile. So, if A was initially active, activating B should disable A, as is currently the case. Activating C, however, should not interfere with A, leaving two profiles active, concurrently. There is no fundamental reason for restricting the total number of active profiles.

It would be nice to have some control over the the "Tray Info" adapters (shown on hover), by having the option to exclude disconnected ones from the list, as well as to show the adapters in alphabetic order. On top of the usual suspects, LAN cable and WiFi, I have 4 rarely used TAP adapters (used for OpenVPN networking and shown in reverse order, TAP-4 → TAP-1), the display of which when not connected simply spoils the view!

Thanks for taking the time to read this.

NetSetMan Support

Administrator

Registered: 2005-08-06

Posts: 1,878

Re: Multiple active profiles & adapter list options

I should be able to have both A and C active at the same time

All profiles are independent from each other, so there's no reason you shouldn't be able to have both A and C activated at the same time. By activating a profile no settings from any previous profiles are reverted. Only the settings checked in the profile to be activated are applied.
If you want to keep both profiles separately, you have to do two activations, first one then the other. However, if both profiles somehow belong together (one profile is for WiFi, the other for LAN), you can combine them as sub-profiles in one profile:
http://www.netsetman.com/en/help?hf=en#hf_profiles

It would be nice to have some control over the the "Tray Info" adapters

That's possible through the "Manage network adapters" dialog as described in the help file:
http://www.netsetman.com/en/help?hf=en#hf_nics

We highly recommend giving the help file a chance whenever questions arise. Most questions are easily resolved by reading the corresponding topic. Additionally, to get a basic understanding of the program the topic Basic Information is very useful especially for beginners. Actually it's also very helpful (especially for beginners) to take 10 minutes and scroll through the help file from top to bottom to get some of the details that otherwise would never be considered.

Kotsius

Member

Registered: 2016-03-23

Posts: 4

Re: Multiple active profiles & adapter list options

Thank you for your kind reply.

I was not referring to the settings behind each profile, but to the profile itself. When I activate profile A, I know that A is active, because NetSetMan tells me so. Now, if I subsequently activate profile C, the settings of A will still be there, of course, but all NetSetMan will show is that C is active. After a while, I will be wondering whether my active settings are A+C or B+C. Combining two profiles in one does not offer a good workaround, because it takes time for new settings to take effect. It makes no sense to change the IP settings of your LAN cable if all you want to do is change the DNS settings of your WiFi adapter.

As far as control over the "Tray Info" adapters is concerned, my suggestion was not about excluding them permanently, but about excluding them only when they are disconnected, plus an option to show all adapters in alphabetic order (instead of reverse alphabetic order, as seems to be the case now).

Once again, thank you for your time.

NetSetMan Support

Administrator

Registered: 2005-08-06

Posts: 1,878

Re: Multiple active profiles & adapter list options

When I activate profile A, I know that A is active, because NetSetMan tells me so. Now, if I subsequently activate profile C, the settings of A will still be there, of course, but all NetSetMan will show is that C is active...

To serve this use case we'd either have to make the number of last used profiles customizable (which feels highly wrong) or develop some kind of semantic structure between all profiles. It doesn't make sence to make this only for one single use case with 2 adapters per semantic group. Other users might want to group more, to create more groups, to connect not only profiles, but also groups, maybe even subprofiles. Not sure where to start or stop here. And all of this needs to be placed into a intuitive UI where the user immediately understand what this is for. Having a concept of groups, profiles and subprofiles already, might cause confusion for an additional layer of connections. All this just to show one additional check mark seems to be quite over the top, wouldn't you say?

excluding them only when they are disconnected

We have to think about it and discuss this. On the one hand it seems to be a useful option, on the other hand it might be confusing not to see an adapter that you expect to be there: if it's not there it could mean the actual adapter isn't there (detached docking station LAN interface) or it's simply not connected. Also this wouldn't include virtual adapters that are by default always shown as connected (like VM adapters, even if there's no VM running).

plus an option to show all adapters in alphabetic order (instead of reverse alphabetic order, as seems to be the case now)

Right now the adapters are shown in the order that is internally used by Windows. This order is mostly created based on the order in that those adapters have been installed on the system. We decided to keep that order as it makes sence in most cases, because then the first adapters are built-in NICs, usually followed by external NICs (docking station) and then software adapters (VM-NICs etc.).
However, you're right in your assumption that there should be a possibility to change that order if required. The easiest and most intuitive way would probably to create a drag-and-drop possibility for the adapters as well as sorting by clicking the column headers in the NIC management list. We'll add this to our todo list. Thanks.

Kotsius

Member

Registered: 2016-03-23

Posts: 4

Re: Multiple active profiles & adapter list options

To serve this use case we'd either have to make the number of last used profiles customizable (which feels highly wrong) or develop some kind of semantic structure between all profiles. [...] All this just to show one additional check mark seems to be quite over the top, wouldn't you say?

I agree. Neither of these options would be worth it. My suggestion, however, was different:

More generally, each time a profile is about to be activated, the program should check whether the settings of any given active profile are affected by this change and, if not, preserve the active status of that profile.

A few coding loops should, in principle, be able to achieve this, on the fly. This approach would leave user complexity levels unaffected (no additional options, nor semantics), while greatly enhancing user feedback. There would be no reason to limit the scope of this 'affected settings check' to any given semantic group, instead each and every possibility could and should be included. The rule is simple: if the profile about to be activated does not contradict a currently active profile, the latter remains active.

On the one hand it seems to be a useful option, on the other hand it might be confusing not to see an adapter that you expect to be there

Perhaps, at the bottom of the window, there could be a list of idle adapters (as a user-enabled option), for example:

Wireless Network Connection
details
yet more details
...
final details

Idle Adapters
Local Area Connection (no details)
Tap-1 (no details)
Tap-2 (no details)
Tap-3 (no details)
Tap-4 (no details)

I hope that my reply is understandable and potentially useful.

NetSetMan Support

Administrator

Registered: 2005-08-06

Posts: 1,878

Re: Multiple active profiles & adapter list options

The rule is simple: if the profile about to be activated does not contradict a currently active profile, the latter remains active.

Unfortunately, this isn't as simple as you imply. For one the concept of "the current profile" is implemented throughout the whole program, especially the AutoSwitch feature relies on it. So this "minor" change affects quite a lot. But taken the effort aside, the result will be ambiguous and unsatisfying. Here are two examples:
1. A profile with IP and DNS is activated. Later a second Profile with only a different DNS is activated. Should the first profile still be marked as active or not? The IP is unchanged. If not because one setting changed, then the user still won't know which IP profile is active.
2. A profile is activated where the IP is changed and a WiFi or VPN connection is established. Later the user manually switches the WiFi network or disconnects the VPN connection and activates a profile where only the printer is changed. Should the first profile still be marked as active or not? The WiFi network or VPN connection aren't active anymore.

Same goes for all the other settings within a profile: all the system settings, network drives, ...

The longer we think about this the more complex it becomes.

Kotsius

Member

Registered: 2016-03-23

Posts: 4

Re: Multiple active profiles & adapter list options

My final comments, to help clarify some points:

the concept of "the current profile" is implemented throughout the whole program, especially the AutoSwitch feature relies on it.

I do not think that AutoSwitch would be affected if multiple profiles were current. There would simply be multiple sets of conditions to monitor instead of just one. In the unlikely event that multiple sets of conditions were met simultaneously, profiles could still be applied sequentially.

1. A profile with IP and DNS is activated. Later a second Profile with only a different DNS is activated. Should the first profile still be marked as active or not? The IP is unchanged. If not because one setting changed, then the user still won't know which IP profile is active.

The first profile should clearly be marked as inactive. If the user wanted to know which IP profile was active, he would have created distinct IP and DNS profiles that could both remain active; which is exactly the option that is currently missing. Distinct profiles = more profiles = more income for you guys!

2. A profile is activated where the IP is changed and a WiFi or VPN connection is established. Later the user manually switches the WiFi network or disconnects the VPN connection and activates a profile where only the printer is changed. Should the first profile still be marked as active or not? The WiFi network or VPN connection aren't active anymore.

The first profile should remain marked as active. Given the fact that there is no contradiction between the two profiles, the program should operate as if both were combined into a single profile. Changing settings manually does not affect the active profile at the moment, no need to change a thing here.

There is, of course, nothing wrong with being highly sceptical of others' suggestions!

NetSetMan Support

Administrator

Registered: 2005-08-06

Posts: 1,878

Re: Multiple active profiles & adapter list options

If the user wanted to know which IP profile was active, he would have created distinct IP and DNS profiles that could both remain active

That's definitely not the case. We know that many users create profiles with only a single setting in it, while at the same time having a couple of basic profiles that change everything required at some frequent locations. For example one profile for home (including IP, DNS, printer, network drives, etc.) and a couple of profiles that set different public DNS services, different printers or different network drives. Activating one of those single-purpose profiles does not mean the home profile isn't active anymore.

Now, in your favor, this problem is already present in the current release, but the point is, implementing your suggestion wouldn't really solve it (well, maybe for a couple of use cases, but at the same time with additional confusion for others). It seems like we're actually arguing for creating semantic profile connections, which is partly true, because we see this as the only proper solution to deal with the constellations you've described. But again, this is currently out of the scope due to its complexity.

Your suggestion is to create profiles with single settings in it, instead of grouping settings that belong together (with some additional profiles with exceptions), so in result you have to activate multiple profiles instead of only one. This would completely eliminate the whole main concept of one profile for one location/purpose.

In your specific case, the easiest and most suitable solution would be to create 4 profiles with 2 subprofiles each.
Profile 1 includes A and C
Profile 2 includes B and C
Profile 3 includes A and D
Profile 4 includes B and D
An obvious downside of course is that if you need to change the settings of C you need to do this both in Profile 1 and 2, but hopefully this won't be necessary too often.

Nevertheless, thank you very much for your valuable input! Even though we're arguing against your suggestion, it's still a really helpful process, in which we can learn new usability aspects and at the same time collect ideas for future concepts where we might get back to this conversation and ideas.